Sound Stuff: we'll see how this goes...

[Alex]

And yet, part of the magic of paper is the glossy, column style articles with photo's, competently bound together.

Most mags that start out small try to elevate.

Perhaps we could get a "host" magazine to print a bound insert...four or 8 pages....it would have the feel of a magazine...and would enable Super-8 people to reach out to the 90% of the population that doesn't comprehend what film even is.

Sometimes when I'm filming I hear..."Is that digital" If I hear that one more time....

You'd be surprised at the number of people who would respond from the magazines regular readership and say "I used to shoot super-8, I thought it was dead"

Guaranteed between 10-20% of Videomaker magazine, or Videography magazine, or a number of other video consumer mags would connect.

-Alex

[Alex]

About the sound thing...yes, you're missing one thing....It isn't as easy as you think.

RS-422 is an excellent video method for locking up various video machines....However, the Consumer version of RS-422.....is the 5 pin and other nonsensical systems that don't truly lock-up.

So, the biggest sound problem for Super-8 is, what affordable format do you transfer to,
and how do you "sync it" and relay it to your Super-8 master or video master.

The Final Cut Pro is helping to make this problem go away, as long as you commit to a DV
Recorder deck, which can set you back anywhere from $ 1,000-$5,000.

And of course, the time-code is not settable...which poses more headache.

The Sound issue is not as simple as you made it sound. (pardon the pun)

Alex

[pcg]

Alex,

Your counter reflects why the ezine cd be important. So much of what is confusing on this site is that one of us says X, and then another of us says, No way, man.

The ezine cd be a series of how-to's that go out for review among ourselves before hitting publication. And when explanations are simple, cool; when they're complicated, fine. We can clarify some of this back-and-forth bullshit for everyone's benefit.

Obviously SR has hit a nerve & we shd follow through w/ the idea. The general tenor out there seems strongly positive--

[dogstarman]

Yeah, I had thought about trying to get a larger magazine to do something like an insert, years ago, in like Alternative Press and other music mags.

The problem there is that in most cases, the magizine who who are trying to get onbord with comes up with this whole laundry list of things you have to do: the thing has to be this particular size (usually small, which means you have to do alot of complex layout and have the thing printed at a printshop, or else spend a month cutting every single page by hand), they won't accept Xeroxed pages or anything printed from a PC, it can only be on specific types of paper, etc. THEN, they wan't to go through the thing, and they start going "You can't say that... you don't have permission to quote from this source... this conflicts with such-and-such... the rights on that photograph are owned by..." See, if they stick your little 6-page zine in their magazine, it reflects on them with their readers (and other peoples lawyers) and they want to make sure that what you are saying isn't going cause them trouble, because in the end, you've got nothing to lose, but their circulation is 650,000 copies a month, and it's their ass.
This is the way things work in music, publishing, and whatever else.

Also, it's been my experience that, even if they did shoot Super-8 back home, years ago, hard-core video guys are hard-core video guys and most of them who read the trade magazines think that film is the biggest waste of time and money and effort on the planet. And they're totally condescending f*ck-heads about it, even more than some film purists are. Of course, we film purists are right, so...

[Alex]

When Videomaker magazine first hit about 10-12 years ago (I think)...there were regular letters to the editor complaining about the demise of Super-8...

While most of the readers nowadays don't care about Super-8, I still think that 10-20 percent of the readership would.

I believe a Video person could see the benefit of outdueling competitiors in their own backyard by saying to a prospective customer.."I shoot commercials in film".

I also believe with the advent of computer files and software programs that were much more clunkier years ago, It might be easier to communicate nowadays with
a publisher.

Also, start very small, say two sides of a page, and just have the magazine print a disclaimer.

What's in it for the mag..perhaps we guarantee a certain amount of subscribers...say 500.

That ultimately helps their bottom line.

I do agree the give and take of forums like this can make the "Final Answer" a better one...

Although making a committment to a final position on a methodology involving super-8 may prove tricky and disruptive.

Alex

[dogstarman]

Alex,

Your points are well-taken, and I appreciate the thoughts. However, I didn't propose the idea of or make the call for a difinitive manifesto for Super8. Other people did. It did make me think, however, that something like a periodical publication would be great, because, it would alow for the focused, ongoing dessemination of theory and knowledge on the subject of film making, which, sadly, the video crowd HAS done with their publications, but there isn't much of anything to be had by people who want to shot FILM. Even American Cinematographer, which is a fine publication that I read regularly, is kind of useless to me, because their target demographic is people who are already working in the industry and have access to things like $24,000 sets of lenses and AVID suites. American Cinematographer doesn't do product reveiws of things I or most other people can afford or even use (the tongue-in-cheek review of the K-3 a few months is a rare exception). And magazines like Independent Filmmaker or whatever it's called focus almost exclusively on the new, hip young director who made a DV feature about a guy who lives in New York (of course) and has problems with his clairvoent girlfreind. No theory, no technical discourse beyond "How to sell your DV feature on-line!"... I won't even look at one of those things anymore.

What I'm proposing is a small, bare-bones publication packed with useful information for people who can't get what they need from the big, flashy mags.

Thanks for your input.
SRM

[ptryk]

As for the pub, I hope you are htinking globally; I mean, super8 has quite a large and devoted following in europe and elsewhere in the world.

As for perhaps starting to answer the question: "how do I,(insert your name here), add sound to my film?"

From my perspective, it isn't that it just SEEMS complicated; it is that it IS complicated to add sound, particularly synq'd sound to a film project. I would like to help, and the following is a suggestion & methodology of developing this manifesto (manifesto.. it sounds so.. well, marx-ish), i hope it is helpful!?

As far as i have been able to piece together, synq'ng sound is a bit like when i began drawing&sketching on paper, some people start from one end, some in the middle, some just "so" in space, some use staedtler pencils, some fabercastel, some fancy mechanical drafting pencils, some just use what they can steal from the local bank, etc. Let me get to it..

For synq'ng sound, adding sound to film, there are perhaps even more factors influencing the available options. These include: money, time, equipment available, technical ability/desire, and finally what you want your desired result to be and how it will be shown(more factors?). Everyone due to their circumstances start in different places and work in different directions, often looking for similar results. It is these differences in available pencils, erasers, and paper that cause people to innovate and develop techniques that work for them and their situation.

I believe that any manifesto on film sound would require some sort of matrix and creating a kind of cinematic-sound decision wheel.

So that it would not be like the oxford english dictionary (unabridged), it could be based on selecting some common choices among the main factors, and then hopefully with enough hints (but not so many as to become a "dummies guide", perhpas idg has a patent on that!) to fill what holes are left. But i don't really know how to make this narrowing of selection, since any choices ignored would seem to alienate the folks that this should serve.

any thoughts?

"onward hooooo!"

[dogstarman]

ptryk

1- You're absolutely right. There are a ton of ways of doing things. That's why I proposed a perriodical publication, so we could revisit specific problems and cover them from a lot of different angles, in mutiple issues.

2- I'm sure we could do overseas mailing. It would just cost more and take longer to get to you, just like any U.S. magazine.

3- OK. No more talk of a "manifesto", since everyone seems to agree it wouldn't really help the problem, but might actually cause more. Fine. I just work here. Wind me up, watch me go. Just, please, somebody come up with a noun other than "zine". A 'zine is something pasted together by amphetamine users who want to rant about backward-masking on Beck and Pavement reocords...

SRM


SRM

[Hanthx]

This is what the forum is all about, and of course you have my backing. On January 29th I will begin school again in L.A. (Northridge) and continue on with my film degree. I like the proposal of e-zine to help answer technical questions that will ultimatley help everyone with filmmaking. Sure there are many members who are advanced, and some who do this just for fun, but when two or more people come together, answers and probable solutions will spark from someones hard work, someones creativity, and most of all, someones passion for what they love. When I start school again, I plan to talk to the Dean of my Department again and propose some more options to filmmaking by ultilizing super8. Down here in San Diego, we already have one city college who does productions in super8, and Im sure they have many questions, so this forum is a great asset. Everybody has something to contribute, whether it be technical data, or a valid opinion. I suggest will ultilize our forum and continue proposing ideas that will help it grow. My girlfriend is journalism major, and this could be a great topic for her department. She is eminsely talented and gifted beyond recognition, and I would trust her with helping us layout some foundations for spreading the word, not only on the web, but through institutions.
Just keep the ideas flowing.
Scott

[Hanthx]

Dogstar and Co.

I like what is happening, look how MANY posts have been posted since early today, 18 total. I agree that in either form, paper or internet could stimulate interests in many film enthusiasts. Look at John's website, its MARVELOUS (and I have responed to his wonderful website) but, it seems that since it isn't tangible (like a paper, magazine, or book) that it doesn't recieve as much appreciation as it should. People should feeback, and they will, just over a period of time. I very much like the idea of printing something and distributing it. I talked with my girlfriend today, and when we start school, she is going to talk to her department about possibly doing some reports in their magazines they publish weekly about our forum. This is tangible, an actual paper.
I think the best way to start this project off is to build a foundation that is very simplistic, not complicated, and INTRODUCE what the paper or magazine would like to accomplish. From there, we can go many directions! There are alot of smart people in this forum who have experience in not only making a film, so lets use our noggins. Don't be afraid to use outside sources. My girlfriend has written for many newspapers, and has had many works published, so a person like her can be vital for structuring an actual paper or...we can have all the fun, and do it ourselves, someone like her is just for help. Keeping it short and simple will able us to get to the point, and simple articles with responses to information regarding to things such as sound will be included. ASK QUESTIONS in this forum on what people would like to see in the paper, what interests them about this medium, and what is the most difficult part about super8 etc. The likes and dislikes (such as which camera do you prefer) will encourage people to send in responses. Address the small issues first, and then build from there. In order to for something to be successful, you need to appeal to an audience, which is diversified. I really hope we can put something like this together, with the help of other members and other people outside of our community, we might be able to get the ball rolling.
Roll with it.
Scott